what size lionel transformer do i need

I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. OTTS Founder Safety first. The higher powered units would not meet todays safety standards as issued by Underwriters Laboratories. A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Join Today! However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Amperes = VA/Secondary Volts or 40VA/28V = 1.43 amperes. Unlimited Members, sign in to enjoy sitewide access. These are all good, dependable transformers from the postwar era that are easy to find today, have adequate wattages ranging from 90-270 watts, have a circuit breaker for safety and have a whistle controller. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. no it isn't. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Ive talked about why here. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. I really doubt you will need more than that. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! This diagram shows all of the controls and the pinout for the Lionel RW transformer. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. Do not use this device if water is present. The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Never had a problem. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. Faq No: 1029 My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. What type is your old transformer? If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Accessories often interact with the train, such as a crossing gate that lowers as the train passes. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon This will solve the slowdown problem. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Mark. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Our community is FREE to join. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Just not quite as much. View More! Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. We're sorry. Price Received. What size Lionel transformer do I need? Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. I have since wired the new transformer to my layout along with the old ZW. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. If they do, follow their recommendations. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. A. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. The locomotives are battery-powered and made of durable plastic. Ill try to find a link to it for you. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. The Best Technical and Innovative Podcasts you should Listen, Essay Writing Service: The Best Solution for Busy Students, 6 The Best Alternatives for WhatsApp for Android, The Best Solar Street Light Manufacturers Across the World, Ultimate packing list while travelling with your dog. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. $2799. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. Serious or fatal injuries may result. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Different wiring projects call for different standards. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. These can all have uses for your layout. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. Model train power falls into one of three categories. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. --I need a station for the train to stop at. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. Anyway if it takes me 100 years to finish this thing one thing is for sure I will not have to worry about powering anything and everything. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. A model railroad train set designed for use in the United States will have a 115V AC 60Hz power requirement. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth.